Podcast Transcript
Sarah Garnett “The Footpath Library”
SPEAKERS
Nicole Abadee, Sarah Garnett
Nicole Abadee 00:05
Hello, I'm Nicole Abadee and I write about books for good weekend. Welcome to the Books, Books, Books podcast in which I interview the best writers from Australia and overseas about their latest book. Thank you for joining me. Before we begin, I would like to acknowledge the country where I live and work and from where I'm joining this conversation, the lands of the Gadigal people of the Eora nation. I pay my respects to their elders past and present to the elders of all communities and cultures across Australia, and to leaders of the future. You can listen to this podcast all of the episodes at nicoleabadee.com.au or subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. Today I'm delighted to welcome Sarah Garnett Founder and Managing Director of not for profit organisation, The Footpath Library, which she founded in 2003, to Books, Books, Books, Sarah is also a corporate communications producer. In 2013. Sara was a New South Wales Australian of the Year local hero finalist, and her story has featured on numerous TV and radio news programs, here and overseas. In 2018, she completed a BA majoring in anthropology. Sarah is passionate about encouraging literacy from an early age and making books available to everyone who loves reading, Sarah, welcome to Books, Books, Books.
Sarah Garnett 01:28
Thank you for having me Nicole.
Nicole Abadee 01:30
I'm going to start by asking you to tell us about The Footpath Library. What is it? And what does it do?
Sarah Garnett 01:36
That library is Australia's only giving library for people experiencing homelessness. It's a mobile library. And we operate in Sydney, Melbourne and Perth going out on the street and giving away excellent quality books to people experiencing homelessness.
Nicole Abadee 01:54
You started the footpath library in 2003. What gave you the idea
Sarah Garnett 02:00
Actually I fell into it, Nicole, I didn't really come I can't claim to have come up with the idea. I was out on the street one night, volunteering for a food van that came down to Waterloo to serve hot meals to rough sleepers. And I noticed a man sitting under a street lamp in the gutter reading a novel and I went over and had a conversation with him. And that's how the Footpath Library started.
Nicole Abadee 02:27
What did you talk about Sarah?
Sarah Garnett 02:30
I asked him what he was reading. And he told me that he read six books a week, which I thought was extraordinary. And then he told me that it was safer for him to read at night and sleep during the day. And so I started bringing him books out of my husband's crime collection.
Nicole Abadee 02:49
I'm going to take you back a step. Why was that? Why was it safer to read at night, and sleep during the day.
Sarah Garnett 02:55
So for rough sleepers, you know, if they're sleeping in parks, or in doorways or so and so on, it's actually not a safe place to be at nighttime in the middle of the city. So quite often, they will wander around all night or find somewhere to read somewhere that has lighting, like McDonald's maybe. And then during the day, they will go and sleep in the park, which is why you often see rough sleepers sleeping, it looks it seems like it that's all they do but in fact it's completely the opposite. While we're in bed, they're up around walking the streets.
Nicole Abadee 03:29
Sarah, it was initially called the Benjamin Andrew footpath library, who was Benjamin Andrew?
Sarah Garnett 03:34
Ben was the son of a very good friend of mine. And we both, Ben and I became very good friends. And he died suddenly and quite tragically. And it was that that gave me the impetus to go out there and do something with myself that I thought could be useful. And so I named the library after him, he wasn't homeless, but he was a passionate reader and artist and loved people. And so it was in his memory.
Nicole Abadee 04:07
How did you get the library started? Where did the first books come from? And where did you set up?
Sarah Garnett 04:12
I stayed at Waterloo where the food truck was because that was an easy way to access people that I thought that might like to read. So to begin with, I emptied my own shelves. And then I asked friends for books. And soon I was just getting boxes and boxes of books from friends from school and book drives and so on. And so I stayed in a limbo for a couple of years, and then moved up to Martin place.
Nicole Abadee 04:43
Where were you operating from, when you were in Wooloomooloo, were you operating from the food truck or did you have your own separate area?
Sarah Garnett 04:49
No, I was actually operating on the footpath across the road. So I would literally drive out with my car and load the books. Put the books out on on the footpath and then the people that were waiting across the road in line for the food truck to arrive, usually come over, go through the books, take the book, get back in the queue, start reading and and you know they get a meal. And so it's actually a great add on service for the Food Fair and it continues to be.
Nicole Abadee 05:18
So, Sarah, tell me about how the footpath library operates. Now, what cities does it operate in? And where do you operate the mobile libraries?
Sarah Garnett 05:27
We we operate our mobile libraries in Sydney, Melbourne and Perth in Sydney, we are in the CBD market place in Melbourne, we are in the CBD and in St Kilda, and in Perth we're in the city and we're about start in Manger and Fremantle. So sort of quite spread out. But the actual, we're actually kind of changing our programming a bit at the moment, partially because most the Councils would prefer outreach services to not be on the street anymore.
Nicole Abadee 06:06
Is that as a result of COVID?
Sarah Garnett 06:08
It was actually happening before COVID. Not so much for us. But there are lots of food vendors operating in the cities and many of them are not registered not for profits, and have created their own problems around vermin in the city and so on. Because food gets left behind the residents complain and then the homeless community get blamed for that and it's not actually they're doing. So the idea is to have more central, more locations where we could collaborate, which is what our sort of next little, big actually, big program, will hopefully be about.
Nicole Abadee 06:50
So Sarah you started small just you on your own working from Wooloomooloo. I know that the way the operation works, at least in Sydney, I've seen is the the mobile van. How did it grow from just being you and a few boxes of your second hand books to something much larger? Where and when did you get the band, for example?
Sarah Garnett 07:07
Well, I started doing this on my own in 2003. And then by 2007, I installed some libraries in some homeless shelters, it was all getting a little bit out of control and I felt like I needed help. And it was suggested to me that we should actually register as a not for profit. And so some fantastic people came along, we formed a board, we got a great patron in Peter Fitzsimmons who got a large legal firm on board, he gave us pro bono help. We have now got several great pro bono supporters, including Kennards who give us all our storage units. And it just grew from there, really, that's how that's pretty much how it just took off. But we've always been almost completely volunteer run. So we have three, one day a week staff and everybody else is a volunteer.
Nicole Abadee 08:03
And do you operate the vans one night a week in the city? Or is it more often than that?
Sarah Garnett 08:08
No. At the moment, it's one night a week. We also though operate book clubs in a couple of social housing blocks in Sydney.
Nicole Abadee 08:20
Could you tell me a little bit about those, Sarah, how do they work,
Sarah Garnett 08:23
One of them is say, tags on to a weekly barbecue that's operated by Sydney University for the residents in Camperdown, and so we go along and provide books to them. Plus during COVID we set up a little strip library right outside for them which remains full all the time so they can access books. The other one is in Surry Hills. And that's a set up in the community centre on site. And the residents have their own little book club club running there. Plus, we also have a indigenous children's library there that's been set up for another not for profit called Life for Koroo Kids so the kids can go over there and take books from there. So we're also helping people who are you know, socially disadvantaged and isolated. That's a lot of what we're about is actually the connection. The books are the vehicle but it's really about the social interaction.
Nicole Abadee 09:16
Where do you get the books from Sarah?
Sarah Garnett 09:18
We get our books from pretty much every publisher in Australia, book reviewers. We do take books from the general public, but they have to be excellent, excellent quality. We prefer new books. We purchase indigenous children's books from a from a publisher, that's another not for profit. But yeah, we never have trouble getting books
Nicole Abadee
And what kinds of books are they? All kinds of books are there some that you don't take? or there's something particularly popular?
Sarah Garnett 09:48
It's been really interesting actually to to learn how diverse the reading appetite is for for our readers. National Geographics are the all time favourite magazine. In fact, they're the only magazine we take and it's it's one piece of reading that doesn't matter how old the magazines are. In fact, sometimes the older the better. With books, gee everything - general fiction, history, autobiographies, particularly Australian history, politics, crime. Dictionaries and thesauruses are really popular. The classics, Yes, the classics are always popular. Poetry. Self Help, is also very big. We don't take things like True Crime, Romance, chicklit, you know, photography books, gardening books, all the obvious ones, we do take very simple cookbooks, they're very popular. And for the women's refuges, we take parenting books, things like that, that are a good resource. So let me go back a step with you, Sarah, in addition to the mobile libraries, which you've told us about, do you also provide books you said to women shelters?
Sarah Garnett 11:08
Until 2017, we were pretty much all we were doing, apart from the one mobile library service in Marin Place, was supplying books to libraries. We had set up in about 110 shelters, including in Brisbane, and we would install the bookshelves, fill them up, and then every month send a new supply of books. So again, a giving library. However, what we realised was this was not providing any social interaction, either for our volunteers or for the people who were reading our books. So the decision was made to halt the libraries, we will we still actually supply those on demand, however, but to make it more of a social opportunity. So to increase our mobile libraries, so that, you know, people can have a conversation or a cup of tea, you know, get out of the daily grind, you know, and, and not necessarily talk about books. A lot of the time books are the last thing we talk about, but just to have that opportunity to connect with people. So our volunteers are the same volunteers each week, there's only a very small group. So
Nicole Abadee 12:21
Where do they come from Sarah?
Sarah Garnett 12:24
Everywhere, they're all really interesting people that are just passionate about reading, and, you know, all ages, well not all ages, all aged adults, but you know, teachers, librarians, lawyers...
Nicole Abadee 12:38
How do you become a volunteer?
Sarah Garnett 12:39
If you want to, you can jump onto our website www.footpathlibrary.org there's a bit of a process to go through but, you know, yes, we are developing new programs. And so we will need more volunteers, particularly people who are available during the day during the week.
Nicole Abadee 12:57
And Sarah, you don't just provide books, do you? Let's take Tuesday night at Martin Place in the van, what else do you provide for people experiencing homelessness?
Sarah Garnett 13:06
Well, now, reading glasses have become as popular as the books. So a few years ago, we, people would always give us old prescription glasses and you know what it's like you can't wear somebody else's glasses. It just does not work. So I friend of mine up here on the Northern Beaches has a business supplying magnifiers to pharmacies and gave us a couple of boxes of plus 1 plus at that stage plus 1 to plus 2.5. And we have people trying them on who'd never tried a pair of magnifiers or any type of glasses on before and they would hold the book up and say oh wow, I can actually read that properly. Considering that a lot of these people are reading under street lamps and things it's not surprising. Now we have people coming back saying they want plus 3's because they realise that how bad their eyes really were to begin with. And so and you know they get sat on and they get broken, they get lost and so on. But we provide those, we go through hundreds of pairs of those a year now. We also give out in winter time. We have knit for charities which is another not for profit. They knit for us plain coloured beanies and scarves in black, brown and navy usually and they go out in winter. And then apart from that in Sydney, we we make cups of tea and coffee.
Nicole Abadee 14:35
On your website there is a definition of homelessness. I don't expect you to repeat it word for word but could you just give us the gist of how homelessness is defined?
Sarah Garnett 14:45
Well, homeless, okay. Homelessness is pretty much the way I look at it, is if you don't have secure tenure, where you are sleeping, so it may not be you know 7% of homeless people are rough sleepers. But that's the 7% we all have a picture of, 93% of homeless people are either couchsurfing, staying in overcrowded dwellings, living with, you know, friends, living in refuges, hostels, boarding houses, temporary accommodation, you know, there's a whole range. So basically nothing is secure, you could lose that bed tomorrow.
Nicole Abadee 15:29
And is that what people mean? When they talk about the hidden homeless?
Sarah Garnett 15:33
Yes, because they're not visible to us. And unfortunately, you know, in the last couple of years, the number of women over 50, for example, has increased a lot. And we're starting to see them on the street, whereas usually women tend to stay off the streets at nighttime if they can, if they're in a refuge or whatever. But you know, and of course, with COVID, with same students, international students, more people that have become homeless, not just because of, you know, perhaps most of unemployment, but because of the mental stress that COVID has brought upon many people who are already struggling.
Nicole Abadee 16:14
Sarah, roughly, how many books do you give away each year? What sort of numbers are we talking?
Sarah Garnett 16:20
It's, it's about 3000. in Sydney, Melbourne and Perth, more when we used to do the hostels, but it's about that number, and we don't see those books return. People often say to me, where do they go? And I hope that they're just being circulated out there. They get left in the hostile shelters, they get passed on to other people. I don't I don't really care where the books end up as long as somebody is reading.
Nicole Abadee 16:47
I think I read, probably it was on your website, that you've given away to date about 350,000 books.
Sarah Garnett 16:53
Yeah, probably. Well, I don't know if it's that many, but it's over the last 18 years. Yeah, no, very probably about 50,000 or something like that. It's hard to say, but it's a lot. And of course, people expect that we've read all those books, too.
Nicole Abadee 17:12
I wanted to ask you that for the people that are working on the night as volunteers, do they have discussions about the books with the clients?
Sarah Garnett 17:19
Often they do? Often they do but you know, we quite often get people come along and say, Okay, what do you recommend? They just kind of broadly look across, you know, 100 books, and I always sort of try and narrow down. I say okay, what do you like to read? Any particular authors? Some people very specific, they want a particular book by a particular author and we have to say, look, we're not actually that sort of library. We can't just pull it out. We will often try and find books. But yeah, I mean, especially the classics, you know, there's always a discussion around those. And I have a guy that still comes, he disappears for a couple of years. And then he comes back. And he still remembers the first two books I gave him, which were the first two books he'd ever read. And one was "To Kill a Mockingbird," and the other one was "A Fortunate Life". And he still talks to me about those when he comes.
Nicole Abadee 18:11
Sarah, I know that you also work with other organisations in the homelessness sector. Could you tell us about them? I think ones Orange Sky and another is Vinnies Night Patrol. What? What worked does The Footpath Library do with them? How do you collaborate?
Sarah Garnett 18:25
Well, COVID has changed all that, of course. But up until COVID, we Orange Sky would come to that place. I mean, Orange Sky is in a number of places around the city.
Nicole Abadee 18:36
Just tell us what orange sky is.
Sarah Garnett 18:38
Okay, well, in this particular instance, Orange Sky is the laundry and the showers. And they come to would come to Martin Place and set up and, you know, we'd give the the guys that were waiting to have their clothes, washed a few books to read, and they could sit down and then we'd all have a chat. Vinnie's Night Patrol was coming to Martin place and after us, like kind of tag to the end of us at the back of us and give out food, usually just sandwiches and so on. We're always looking for small grassroots type organisations to collaborate with and which is one of the things that we're looking at doing with this new venture that we hope to start at the end of the year. Because there are so many services that are not accessible for people experiencing homelessness.
Nicole Abadee 19:32
Sarah, what you're talking about, there is a hub, isn't it? You're looking at the moment to the feasibility of setting up a hub for people experiencing homelessness. What services would that provide?
Sarah Garnett 19:43
Well, until 2019, we had a annual event called Sydney Homeless Connect, which was run by a wonderful man called Andrew Everingham. And it was, I used to call it the Royal Easter Show for homeless people because you, you could come and get pretty much anything from haircuts to a massage to new clothes, food, whatever. And of course, that's been cancelled now for two years in a row. And so what we
Nicole Abadee 20:16
Because of COVID?
Sarah Garnett 20:17
Yes, yes, yes, because of the sheer volume of people that come through. So what Footpath Library is looking at doing is is initiating a mini hub that will take place once a month, probably in the Inner West. And we will collaborate with other providers who would come on a rostered basis. So we would have legal aid, births, deaths and marriages are really popular. A lot of people don't have birth certificates and your need them, birth certificates, for all sorts of things, so they can get one on the spot. They can get vet care for their animals, counselling. We want to introduce scribes, this is a big thing at the moment, there is no such service to get someone to fill in a form for you, when you are semi literate, you know is is something that is always requested, even when people come to us as volunteers for The Footpath Library on the street. Haircuts huge, haircuts are always the most popular thing in Sydney Homeless Connect, as is things like, you know, Reiki or just shoulder massages, just anything where people feel like they're getting pampered a little bit. So really be service oriented, not goods oriented. But of course, we'll be giving out books and reading glasses as well.
Nicole Abadee 21:42
And is that something that The Footpath Library is taking a leadership role in?
Sarah Garnett 21:46
Yes, we are. We love collaborating, we know that there are people out there but we would like them to be really keen to do this. And I guess we've just decided that we'll get out there, find the venue, we've been given some funding, which is fantastic. And yeah, we're really looking forward to just doing a all the research first. We need volunteers that we can train, and then hopefully start at the end of the year. And I think this will be, the council's will really be, if we can do this also in Melbourne and Perth, will be really, you know, supportive, because it is putting services together in a location that's safe. That's the other thing it is really, it will be a safe location and, you know, it sort of ticks the boxes for them as well.
Nicole Abadee 22:37
So it's clear from what you've said, and it's very obvious that COVID has presented a major challenge but The Footpath Libraries responded in two major ways hasn't it? First by setting up an E library. And secondly, by making these little libraries, I'm going to ask you about them one at a time. Let's start with the E Library. You started that in 2020. And I think you had about 350,000 titles in that. How does the E Library work? And where did you get the ebooks from?
Sarah Garnett 23:05
So we were approached by Wheeler's books in New Zealand, and they have an online library that is subscribed to by most of the high school libraries, public libraries in Australia. And they offered us a very minimal subscription to access a particular library that had a lot of titles and whilst I'd always said we're not doing anything online - you know, people need to hold the book - of course, that completely changed in March of last year. And so we set the, we got the E Library up and running and it was very popular in Melbourne in particular during the extended lockdown they had. So we were issuing logins to hostels, refuges, community organisations that had clients that were isolated and so on.
Nicole Abadee 23:58
What sort of books were they Sarah?
Sarah Garnett 24:00
Oh, everything. I mean, if anything that you can pretty much borrow from a regular library. So fiction and nonfiction,
Nicole Abadee 24:08
Yes, contemporary books as well as classics.
Sarah Garnett 24:11
Yes, yes. You know, not not titles that were released last week necessarily. But you know, within the last six months, we've had a bit of a challenge with that and because it had an initial spike of interest, and then it's, it's kind of just petered out and realised it's because, well, a couple of reasons. The staff in the shelters and so on, don't have time to I mean, they can they can hand out the information to their clients, but they don't have time to really sit down and promote it and that's completely fine because that's not their job. But the other thing is that a social worker was just telling me yesterday in a drug rehab shelter, you know, in their downtime a lot of their clients are just watching Netflix, because when they've been counselled, it's like education, and so on, but in their downtime, they just want to watch Netflix, they don't want to read. So one of the things I'm thinking about is, is kind of shaping the E Library so that it has more resource material for social workers in rehab. hostels, for example, so that the title's they talk about in their counselling are available to their clients just by simply getting online. And they can be audible books as well, of course.
Nicole Abadee 25:34
So again, this is going a long way past mobile libraries, give us some examples of organisations that you provided access, with whom you provided access, to this E Library.
Sarah Garnett 25:44
Well, it's really the big ones that have been set up by the big charities like the Salvation Army, pretty much. In Western Australia, we've looked at the regional councils who only have very small libraries, so they don't have any library, because most public libraries in cities do have an E Library. So it's more so the council's in regional Perth who only have tiny libraries. That's, that's what Western Australia is focusing on. And and here in Sydney, yes, we're just looking at re kind of resetting, I suppose now that it's been nearly 12 months, because I still think there's a lot of value in the E Library, it's just getting people up and using it, and making sure that the titles that we have available are the right ones. And I think that the more the psychoeducational titles are probably going to be the ones that are going to be the most benefit.
Nicole Abadee 26:44
Sarah, where does your funding come from?
Sarah Garnett 26:47
We don't we we don't get any government funding and pretty much we get
Nicole Abadee 26:53
Not even local government?
Sarah Garnett 26:55
No, none. So we get family foundations and individuals who give us money.
Nicole Abadee 27:00
And so it's entirely philanthropic?
Sarah Garnett 27:02
Yes. And it's people who love reading and get what the value of reading is. And people who can who can who actually get the time as people do read, because that was that's been a that was a big learning curve. For me at the very beginning. I just presumed that they were uneducated and illiterate. You know, I got that from from being little when, you know, my mother would take us into the city and say, "Oh, you know, they're lazy bums, they should get up and get a job." And now I look back and think, oh, they were sleeping, because they've been up all night, they're exhausted. And you know, they might have just lost their job last week, or their marriage broke up, or, you know, there's been some sort of crisis and now they're on the street.
Nicole Abadee 27:50
How important is it for these people to have access to book Sarah? for their self esteem, their self respect their, their mental well being?
Sarah Garnett 27:58
For people who love to read, they've told me it's as important as food. So we call it food for the mind and soul, you know, your brain needs nurturing as well. And for them, some of them are said to have said that they would go out without a meal, if it meant that they were going to have access to a book that otherwise they wouldn't you know, so, for example, on Tuesday nights, there are people that come and they don't get in the queue for tea and coffee, they come to the books first and I'll go stand right at the end of the tea and Coffee queue. And potentially we might have run out of water by then but they've got their book. And that's the most important thing.
Nicole Abadee 28:32
What do you need? Sarah? Do you need more books right now? Do you need donations? What do you need most?
Sarah Garnett 28:38
We don't need books. We get plenty of books. Of course, we would love more donations. So that that's Sydney hub can you know continue
Nicole Abadee 28:47
How do people donate to The Footpath Library?
Sarah Garnett 28:49
They can donate online on our website, again, there is a donate button on our website. And you know $10 buys a pair of reading glasses. So every little bit, we can stretch a long way, especially when we have very few overheads being you know, such a small organisation.
Nicole Abadee 29:08
You've been operating now for almost 20 years. Sarah, from when you started in 2003. What are your hopes for the future of The Footpath Library?
Sarah Garnett 29:17
Well, to be honest to call I would love that we weren't going to be needed, you know, in another five to 10 years. But you know, I don't have, I don't feel like that's reality. So I would like I would like to see a whole lot of hubs set up, you know, where it was just, you know, across the city all over Australia where people experiencing experiencing homeless can can go to get whatever they need, whatever services they need counselling. You know, if I was once told that if if every person that stepped out onto the street on that first day and within the first two weeks was offered counselling for whatever it was that got them there, gambling, depression, drugs, whatever, more than likely they would be off the straight quite quickly. But once you've been there for a few months, it just becomes, it seems such a hard thing to get over and to get out of. So to me, the counselling side of it would be huge. And so these, these hubs would be such a fantastic way for us to be able to, hopefully get people to this, you know, quite quickly the help that they need. But in the meantime, give them books to read and, and stimulation and social connection, you know, having a conversation with just, you know, volunteers, it's just such a big thing, you know. Some incredibly fascinating people, I have to say, in the last 20 years, I have met more, my friends gonna hate me saying this. But I have found people more fascinating than anyone else, that I have met in my own group of friends.
Nicole Abadee 31:04
Give me an example of somebody who you've met through your work, who has had that sort of impact on you and who you have seen really respond to the library, and that the supply of books.
Sarah Garnett 31:15
Look we've had, we've had so many, I mean, I personally have a couple of friends, good friends who started on the streets. So Hank, we made a documentary about, my partner made a documentary about, actually he was a came out when he was a young child with his mother, who was a Polish refugee. She got a job in St. Mary's as a seamstress. And he was sent to a boy's home for not going to school, like the old days, that's what the magistrate did sent them to a boys home, he actually loved the boy's home. He then left and became a truck driver. He ended up on the street after falling out with his brother and had been there when we met him for about five or six years. And then he died two years ago. But up until then, he was just the kindest, most generous, most loved by the entire community, homeless community. Funny. He would take other people on night architecture tours around the city. They would all get together and walk around and just talk about the buildings and so on. He had a coffee club that he'd go to, a lot of men, older men, you know, he Hank was 70. But he would always ask for colouring in books, very tongue in cheek because he wasn't a big reader, but he loved the whole social interaction of being around books. And he loved looking at the titles and all that sort of thing. So he's dearly missed by me and my family, you know, he was such a wonderful person. And, you know, there are others like, Hank, that that, you know, I'm not, I don't know that The Footpath ]Library changed their lives, I think it definitely enriched their lives, and hopefully, you know, made them feel like they were valuable and, you know, much loved by all of us volunteers. So, yeah, it's extraordinary that the people that, you know, that we've met, and I mean, you know, the wife of the artists who was in the Two of Us story, in The Good Weekend, you know, he's in Archibald. He's been an Archibald entrant a number of times, he's been hung in the wind prize. Yeah, incredibly talented man. And I had no idea until I looked over his shoulder one night saw his him sketching in his notebook. And we started a conversation about painting.
Nicole Abadee 33:40
Sarah, just to explain to our listeners, that was a Two of Us interview that I did for Good Weekend. And I wanted to say to our listeners, what do you, first of all, thank you so much for coming on to talk about this wonderful organisation, to anybody listening, who would like to be involved either to donate money or to donate their time to become involved as a volunteer. I'll be putting up the details on my website on the podcast page of with a link to The Footpath Library. And I'll also put up a link to that Good Weekend interview with Sarah and Michael. Sarah, thank you so much for talking to me today. And I wish you all the very best of luck with the fantastic work that you're doing.
Sarah Garnett 33:50
Thank you, Nicole, I really appreciate you having me on today.
Nicole Abadee 34:26
Thank you for listening to Books, Books Books. If you liked what you heard in this episode, please go to my website, www.nicoleabadee.com.au to listen to all the episodes and find out more about the podcast. You can also find me Nicole Abadee on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter and look for my reviews in Good Weekend. You can subscribe to Books, Books, Books at Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google and all the usual places. It would be lovely if you could go to any of these platforms and post a rating or review. Thank you. I look forward to talking books with you again soon.